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John Carlos Baez
@johncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyz  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

Sean Silver explains how Prussian blue works:

"The iron in Prussian Blue is in two different oxidation states – which is to say, has two different numbers of electrons. As iron(II), it has given up two electrons, and is a dark brown color. Iron(III) [where it's given up 3 electrons] is rust-red, precisely because rust is mostly composed of iron in that third oxidation state.

The ability of iron easily to switch between oxidation states happens to be what makes it crucial to blood – and makes blood visibly different when oxygenated. When the iron(II) in hemoglobin forms a bond with oxygen, it gives up an electron to become iron(III); it changes its oxidation state, and becomes bright red. That same compound will later give up its oxygen to a cell which needs it, reclaiming its electron and reverting to duller, darker color gained from iron(II).

The blueness only happens when both ions are locked in close proximity, from a special process called intervalence charge transfer. When hit with light of the right wavelength, some of the iron(II) ions throw off an electron, which is captured by a neighboring iron(III). Though the individual atoms stay locked in the lattice, the ions switch places, one shedding an electron, which the other gains. Because the compound absorbs only the precise orange wavelength that triggers the charge transfer, it reflects everything else. In white light, our eyes register the sum of the reflection as blue."

The picture shows how it works. But I don't quite get it: some irons touch 6 carbons and others touch 6 nitrogens. Is that why some are iron(II) and some are iron(III)? If no atoms move in this "intervalence charge transfer", that can't be right.

(2/n)

Two hexacyanoferrate ions next to each other, and a depiction of an electron hopping from one to the other.
Two hexacyanoferrate ions next to each other, and a depiction of an electron hopping from one to the other.
Two hexacyanoferrate ions next to each other, and a depiction of an electron hopping from one to the other.
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日本語まあまあ
@nihongomaamaa@mastodon.ie replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@johncarlosbaez TIL Prussian Blue can be used as a treatment (antidote?) for Caesium-137:

Accidental ingestion of caesium-137 can be treated with Prussian blue ([formula elided]), which binds to it chemically and reduces its biological half-life to 30 days.‍[21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium-137

Caesium-137 - Wikipedia

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John Carlos Baez
@johncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@nihongomaamaa - wow, cool! The article I cited says:

"It is also one of the last pigments which is also a medicine. The very word drug used to refer equally to pigments and medicines; it is now just about only Prussian Blue which is still part of the standard medical toolkit. Prussian Blue is used in histology, as a non-toxic stain for soft tissues, and as a remedy or cure for forms of radiation poisoning, taken in pill form. Other drugs can perform these functions; it is just that Prussian Blue is easy to make."

So that's consistent with it being a treatment for caesium-137 poisoning!

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David P
@pewnack@aus.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@johncarlosbaez

It's a magnet below around 5 K.

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John Carlos Baez
@johncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@pewnack - neat!

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David P
@pewnack@aus.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@johncarlosbaez

There's a huge series of Prussian Blue analogues that exhibit ferromagnetism or ferrimagnetism at mostly sub Liq Nitrogen temps. However some non-stoichiometric Vanadium based analogues have Tc values that are quite high. From memory they're around room temp. Considering my knowledge is 20 years out of date there's prob been more advances.

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John Carlos Baez
@johncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@pewnack - that's really cool. I will look into Prussian blue analogues.

What does it mean to say something like that is non-stoichiometric?

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David P
@pewnack@aus.social replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@johncarlosbaez

It means that the formula has fractions of elements. In this case sometimes there are holes where the Fe or V should be (balanced by Na or C's or whatever) but they're not periodic.

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John Carlos Baez
@johncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@pewnack - Thanks! According to Wikipedia, even real-world Prussian Blue is nonstoichiometric because there are random vacanicies.

"One-fourth of the sites of Fe(CN)₆ subunits (supposedly at random) are vacant (empty), leaving three such groups on average per unit cell. The empty nitrogen sites are filled with water molecules instead, which are coordinated to Fe(III)."

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John Carlos Baez
@johncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

Sean Silver explains how Prussian blue works:

"The iron in Prussian Blue is in two different oxidation states – which is to say, has two different numbers of electrons. As iron(II), it has given up two electrons, and is a dark brown color. Iron(III) [where it's given up 3 electrons] is rust-red, precisely because rust is mostly composed of iron in that third oxidation state.

The ability of iron easily to switch between oxidation states happens to be what makes it crucial to blood – and makes blood visibly different when oxygenated. When the iron(II) in hemoglobin forms a bond with oxygen, it gives up an electron to become iron(III); it changes its oxidation state, and becomes bright red. That same compound will later give up its oxygen to a cell which needs it, reclaiming its electron and reverting to duller, darker color gained from iron(II).

The blueness only happens when both ions are locked in close proximity, from a special process called intervalence charge transfer. When hit with light of the right wavelength, some of the iron(II) ions throw off an electron, which is captured by a neighboring iron(III). Though the individual atoms stay locked in the lattice, the ions switch places, one shedding an electron, which the other gains. Because the compound absorbs only the precise orange wavelength that triggers the charge transfer, it reflects everything else. In white light, our eyes register the sum of the reflection as blue."

The picture shows how it works. But I don't quite get it: some irons touch 6 carbons and others touch 6 nitrogens. Is that why some are iron(II) and some are iron(III)? If no atoms move in this "intervalence charge transfer", that can't be right.

(2/n)

Two hexacyanoferrate ions next to each other, and a depiction of an electron hopping from one to the other.
Two hexacyanoferrate ions next to each other, and a depiction of an electron hopping from one to the other.
Two hexacyanoferrate ions next to each other, and a depiction of an electron hopping from one to the other.
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TobyBartels
@TobyBartels@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@johncarlosbaez

I understand how the two valences of iron give rise to the two different colours (dull brown and bright red) of blood. But then you say that when the two are in close proximity, this can look blue, and I'm half expecting you to say that this is why veins look blue through the skin. But that seems like a little too much; it's just a coincidence, right?

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John Carlos Baez
@johncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@TobyBartels - wow, interesting - I really have no idea! Let's see if I can look up something about "blue blood".

This article says it's not the blood itself that's blue:

"It is true that veins, which are sometimes visible through the skin, may look bluish. Why should this be so? Click here if you want the full story. But the short of it is this: It has to do with the way tissue absorbs, scatters and reflects light. (I think this also explains why your lips look blue when you get cold.) But if you were to open one of your veins, or cut your lip, even when you're cold, there'd be nothing blue at all about the liquid that would pour forth.

Maybe it is the fact that veins look bluish that explains the myth that blood is blue as it flows through the veins?"

(The link at "click here" is broken.)

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2017/02/03/513003105/why-do-many-think-human-blood-is-sometimes-blue

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Tony Vladusich
@TonyVladusich@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 12 hours ago

@johncarlosbaez @TobyBartels

Somewhat relevant but still unsatisfying explanation of blue veins. I’m still missing the part of the explanation that says why veins should ever reemit more short wavelength photons than long.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/11/04/4120712.htm

Why do veins look blue?

Blood is red, but thanks to physics, chemistry and industrial relations, veins can look blue, explains Dr Karl.
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Tony Vladusich
@TonyVladusich@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 11 hours ago

@johncarlosbaez @TobyBartels

Link to source PDF

https://www.ilm-ulm.de/fileadmin/files/literatur/1151.pdf

View (PDF)
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Preston MacDougall
@ChemicalEyeGuy@mstdn.science replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@johncarlosbaez You’re right. Atoms aren’t LEGO blocks. They move relative to each other in (guided by symmetry) and their shapes *evolve* as coordination and oxidation states change. #Chemistry is a beautiful dance of atoms! https://www.youtube.com/live/Wlp8sqUmQ18?si=RKjHc7acRuRQoBqD

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John Carlos Baez
@johncarlosbaez@mathstodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

Here's Prussian blue in all its crystalline glory!

Iron(III) is red.
Iron(II) is yellow.
Carbon is black.
Nitrogen is blue.

The red balls sit at every other vertex in a cubic lattice. What do you call that pattern? I forget!

The yellow balls also sit at every other vertex of the cubic lattice.

Along each edge there's a blue ball and a red ball.

You can rotate this image and play around with it in other ways at ChemTube 3d:

http://www.chemtube3d.com/ss-prublu/

(3/n)

A cubic lattice with alternating red and yellow spheres at the vertices of the lattice. Along each edge is a pair consisting of a blue sphere and a black sphere. This is the crystal structure of Prussian blue, from here:

 https://www.chemtube3d.com/ss-prublu/
A cubic lattice with alternating red and yellow spheres at the vertices of the lattice. Along each edge is a pair consisting of a blue sphere and a black sphere. This is the crystal structure of Prussian blue, from here: https://www.chemtube3d.com/ss-prublu/
A cubic lattice with alternating red and yellow spheres at the vertices of the lattice. Along each edge is a pair consisting of a blue sphere and a black sphere. This is the crystal structure of Prussian blue, from here: https://www.chemtube3d.com/ss-prublu/
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byte :ms_robot_headpats: :blobhaj_flag_nonbinary:
@byte@awawa.club replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago
@johncarlosbaez https://youtu.be/okpmqN9jVQQ here’s a random little song from an obscure band to finish the thread, it mentions prussian blue 😁
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Peter :verified_lgbt: 🦕
@Petsie@troet.cafe replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@johncarlosbaez Prussian says: "Cool 🤩 ! Thank you."

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Svante
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@johncarlosbaez It's called a face-centred cubic lattice.

In the cyanide ion, the N is a bit more attractive for the valence electrons (its nucleus is a bit more positive), so the ion is a bit polar (an electric dipole). The more negative pole is »better« facing the Fe III ions, i. e. it is the configuration with lower energy.

If you kick an eletron from the Fe II to the Fe III ions, thus making the former into Fe III and the latter into Fe II, the new state's energy is a bit higher.

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Viktor Tokariev 🇺🇦
@victor_tokarev@twiukraine.com replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@johncarlosbaez
Iron(III) is red.
Nitrogen is blue.
Many-body quantum mechanics is hard,
so colors are too

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